PART 1 Heading: ‘Pastor’
Russell Under Direct Court Examination
Subheading: Interesting Court Examination of ‘Pastor’
Russell, His Religious Propaganda As Well As His Business Enterprises.
From Spotlight on Russellism, Volume 1, number 1, pages 2
and 7. Punctuation and capitalization as per the Sidersky transcript.
Q = Attorney
Staunton
A = Charles Taze
Russell
March 17th, 1913.
(continuation of Russell vs. Ross)
Mr. Washington:-
The
evidence for the Crown is closed, Your Worship.
Mr. Staunton:-
I just want
to submit that they have made no case. Of course I will call the prosecutor,
Mr. Russell.
Charles T. Russell.
Sworn.
Direct examination by Mr. Staunton.
Q. Now your name
is Charles T. Russell?
A. It is.
Q. You are
prosecutor in this case?
A. I didn’t
understand so.
Q. Well, are you
prosecutor?
A. I am with the
Crown.
Q Are you
private prosecutor? Let’s not start –
A. I didn’t know
that I was, sir.
Q. You didn’t
lay this information or cause it to be laid?
A. I
understand that the Crown –
Q. Will you
answer my question. Did you lay an information or cause it to be laid?
A. I will have
to ask my Counsel how it is.
Mr. Washington:-
The information is there, Mr.
Russell, you can look at it and see if it is yours.
Information produced:
Witness:-
I remember, sir, yes, I made
this, yes, sir.
Q. Why did you
hesitate to answer that?
A. Because I
thought it was the Crown that was prosecutor in this case, and I was a witness.
Q. I asked you
if you laid the information – You are an intelligent man – did you swear to it?
A. Yes, to this paper.
Q. Therefore you
are the private prosecutor?
A. Whatever you say.
Q. Now were you
at one time in the shirt business in Allegheny, Pennsylvania?
A. I was in the Gent’s furnishing business.
Q. Then you were
selling shirts in Allegheny, Pennsylvania at one time?
A. I had stores in Allegheny. I don’t know
that I sold many shirts myself.
Q. Do you
understand the question, Mr. Russell?
A. I have answered it.
Q. Did you sell
shirts in Allegheny!
A. I can’t say that I sold shirts. I have
plenty –
Q. You swear you
can’t tell me whether you sold any shirts or not?
A. I don’t know whether I ever sold a shirt
ever in my life
Q. Had you any
stores there?
A. Yes
Q. Did you keep
shirts for sale?
A. Shirts for
sale.
Q. You don’t
know whether you sold any or not?
A. I couldn’t say whether I did.
Q. How many
years did you keep the business?
A. Well, I had, I presume ten years.
Q. How many stores
did you have?
A. I had
different stores at different times.
Q. How many did
you have at one time?
A. Five, I think
at one time.
Q. Did you sell
them all out?
A. I sold them
all out.
Q. Did you
inherit your business from your father?
A. No.
Q. Did you build
up the business for yourself?
A. Yes.
Q. Your Father
wasn’t in that business?
A. My Father was
partner in one of those stores.
Q. Your father
was partner in the business?
A. One of the
businesses.
Q. Did you
lecture on religious subjects at the time you were in the Gent’s Furnishing
business?
A. I did.
Q. When did you
quit the Gent’s Furnishing business?
A. I have no
matter to refresh my memory.
Q. About what
year?
A. Rough guess
there.
Q. Make it as
rough as you like, but give it to me.
A. About 1885.
Q. Wasn’t before
‘85?
A. I couldn’t
say.
Q. Did you
establish the Watch Tower immediately after you quit that business?
A. No, sir.
Q. How many
years after?
A. No, sir, I established the Watch Tower
just before I quit the business.
Q. Now did
anybody in those days ever call you the “Crank preacher”?
A. They may have
done so. I never heard.
Q. You don’t
know that you ever heard that, did you ever see it in print?
A. I don’t
remember that I ever did.
Q. Did you ever
hear that in those days you were called “The crank preacher”?
A. I don’t
remember it.
Q. You swear you
don’t remember it?
A. Certainly
swearing all the time.
Q. You may have
been for aught you know?
A. Why, of
course, Mr. Ross says he knows.
Q. Never mind
Mr. Ross. I’m asking you.
A. Well, I have
answered it. I wouldn’t change it any if you ask me this over again.
Q. Did you ever
give out that you were “Some Great One?”
A. No Sir.
Q. Never did it?
A. No Sir.
Q. You were
never the servant, never prophesied no time that you were the servant mentioned
in the 24th St. Matthew?
A. I never did,
but some of my friends suggested that they believed that the Scripture in
Matthew 24-26 was applicable to myself. I have never said it was, and I have
never said it was not. I may have merely said I did not know whether it was or
not.
Q. Did you ever
attend a High School of learning, or, perhaps, you might tell me what schools
of learning you did attend?
A. I attended
various schools, none were termed High Schools of learning.
Q. What schools
did you attend?
A. Well as far
as theology is concerned –
Q. I am not
asking you about theology.
A. I had a great
deal of education from private tutors.
Q. What schools
did you attend?
A. Not very
many.
Q. What school?
A. Ordinary
public school.
Q. At what age
did you leave school?
A. That is more
than I know.
Q. Were you ten,
fifteen, or twenty years old?
A. If you know,
you know more than I do.
Q. You don’t
know how long you were at school?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever
at school?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you clear
on that?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell
me how many years you attended school?
A. No.
Q. Did you
attend two years?
A. I suppose so.
Q. You don’t
know?
A. Yes, I’m sure
more than that.
Q. Did you
attend three years?
A. I suppose –
Q. You don’t
know, tho’?
A. I suppose so.
Q. Well, but you
don’t know.
A. I can’t say
where those were.
Q. You attend
three years in total time at school?
A. Yes more than
three years.
Q. Did you
attend four years?
A. I suppose
five or six or seven years.
Q. I asked you
how many years you attended school?
A. Probably
seven years.
Q. Now, where
did you attend school?
A. In Allegheny,
Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia.
Q. Now, do you
know, or are you learned in Latin?
A. Not as much
as I would like to be.
Q. Can you read
anything in Latin?
A. I can read a
few sentences, I can’t read Latin –
Q. You did not
profess to read anything in Latin outside?
A. No.
Q. You don’t
profess then to be schooled in the Latin language?
A. No sir.
Q. Or in Greek?
A. No sir.
Q. Do you know
the Greek alphabet?
A. Oh yes.
Q. Can you tell
me the correct letters if you see them?
A. Some of them,
I might make a mistake on some of them.
Q. Could you
tell me the names of those on top of the page, page 447 that I have got here?
A. Well, I don’t
know that I would be able to.
Q. You can’t
tell what those letters are, look at them, and see if you know?
A. My way - ?
Q. Are you
familiar with the Greek language?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever
take a course in theology?
A. Taking courses
in theology all the time.
Q. Did you ever
take a course in theology at a University, or at a school of any kind?
A. No – glad I
didn’t.
Q. Did you ever
take one in philosophy?
A. No.
(To be continued)
Issues 2-5 are not extant. However, issue 6 is, and provides
more of the transcript.
PART TWO Heading: ‘Pastor’ Russell Under Direct
Court Examination
Subheading: Interesting Court Examination of ‘Pastor’
Russell, His Religious Propaganda As Well As His Business Enterprises.
From Spotlight on Russellism, Volume 1, number 6, pages 2
and 7. Punctuation and capitalization as per the Sidersky transcript.
Q = Attorney
Staunton
A = Charles Taze
Russell
(continuation)
Q. Same man?
A. Yes.
Q Is that an
additional sum of money?
A I don’t know
but it is.
Q Did you get
the whole of this money from him at one time?
A. No Sir, he
sent it at different times.
Q. Did he strip
his family of all their possessions to do that?
A. No, he came
to me and said, “I’ve just received a legacy from an Uncle in Ireland” – I think
it was his Uncle – “of Twenty Thousand Dollars, and I want to give that all to
this work.” I said, “Brother Hay, my advice to you is before you tender it,
because if you do tender it, as President of the Society, my advice to you in
advance is not to do it. Don’t give more than half, keep one half for some
other reason.” He said he would take my advice and gave Ten Thousand Dollars,
and he never finished giving the Ten. Since that he developed, what they claim,
was tumor on the brain.
Q. Is he in the
lunatic asylum now?
A. Yes.
Q. Who supports
him?
A. Well, I think
we became.
Q. Who pays the
money?
A. The Society.
Q. Does the
Society pay it?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I am told
that it is his Uncle in the old country that does that.
A. Not as I
know, we done it right along.
Q. How much have
you been paying?
A. I don’t know
– several years.
Q. You are
paying it actually from time to time?
A. I would not
know, the Treasurer would know that. I know we did pay it – never declined to
pay it, I suppose being paid for.
Q. What is the
International Bible Students Association?
A. The
International Bible Students Association is an Association which got its
charter in Great Britain. It is international in its scope and work.
Q. Who are
members of the Association?
A. Anybody who
desires to be a member,
Q. Well, how
many are there?
A. Well, we
don’t come down to the matter in the way you have – judge from membership.
Q. How many are
there active members of the Association?
A. Well, I can
hardly say.
Q. Are there
two?
A. I suppose there
are one hundred thousand anyway.
Q. That are
living, where do they live, in America?
A. All over the
earth.
Q. Are they, do
they call them persons, who are members of this Society, who are your
followers?
A. No Sir, we
told them not to follow me but the Lord.
Q. Are they all
your disciples then, if you call?
A. I hope they
are disciples of Christ.
Q. Then people
contribute to your work?
A. Most of them
never contribute a cent.
Q. What do you
call them, again?
A. Bible
Students.
Q. International
– what?
A. Bible
Students Association.
Q. They are made
of all creeds of society?
A. All creeds of
society.
Q. Men who are
not students in it?
A. Oh yes, all
students.
Q. They study
the Bible, that is what you mean?
A. Yes.
Q. Men who are
not educated?
A. Some educated,
and some who are not educated, some of them ministers, some of them doctors and
some of them lawyers.
Q. Where did you
get the charter from, the government of England?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know
under what law it is?
A. No.
Q. Is it under
the Companys Act in England, do you know that?
A. I am unable
to say.
Q. There is a
charter issue?
A. Yes.
Q. Now you spoke
this morning of the family, what is the family you spoke about?
A. Well the
family I spoke about was when Mrs. Russell was with me.
Q. No, no, but
now, what does it consist of?
A. The family
now then –
Q. Have you a
family now?
A. Yes Sir, we
call it a family.
Q. What is the
family?
A. All those in
the Brooklyn hall we call in a general way the family.
Q. Do they all
live in the one house?
A. We have a
house, I suppose, of about fifty rooms.
Q. What do you
call it?
A. What do we
call it – “Bethel,” house of God.
Q. And do you
all live there?
A. They live
there.
Q. Are they
married and unmarried?
A. Married and
unmarried.
Q. Men and
women?
A. Yes.
Q. Numbering,
about how many?
A. About one
hundred.
Q. Now, how are
the expenses of that institution paid of the “Bethel”?
A. The expenses
are all paid by the People’s Pulpit Association.
Q. Now, what is
the People’s Pulpit Association?
A. The People’s
Pulpit Association.
Q. There are so
many of these associations that I get mixed up.
A. Get mixed up?
Q. Yes.
Q. What is the
People’s Pulpit Association?
A. It is an
Association charted in the state of New York, and the International Bible
Students Association is charted by the –
Q. No, no, no,
describe the People’s Pulpit Association.
Q. It is an
Association charted by the state of New York, what for?
A. Some
religious – knowledge of God and the Scriptures to all –
Q. How many
belong to that?
A. About forty.
Q. Forty people?
A. Forty
ministers.
Q. Now these are
preachers and give all their time, are these the preachers?
A. Those are the
preachers.
Q. Do they pay
the expenses of the “Bethel”?
A. The preachers
do not.
Q. Who does?
A. The
Association.
Q. Forty in the
Association?
A. Backed by the
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.
Q. Where do they
get the money?
A. The Watch
Tower Bible and Tract Society provides the money.
Q. What is it
now, the Peoples Pulpit Association now and has forty members in it?
A. Approximately.
Q. Do they all
live in the “Bethel”?
A. That’s their
home.
Q. What are the
other sixty or seventy that live there?
A. Well, they
are assistants in various ways, stenographers, helpers in the office.
Q. Wives and
children?
A. Some of them
have wives and children of those preachers.
Q. Are the
preachers men and women?
A. No, sir, no
women preachers.
Q. All men?
A. Yes.
Q. Now they get
their money from the Watch Tower?
A. They get
their money from the Peoples Pulpit Association.
Q. Yes because Peoples
Pulpit Association get their money from the Watch Tower?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Watch
Tower gets it from –
A. Where you
choose to get it.
Q. From the
public?
A. Yes.
Q. Now is there
any other Association?
A. International
Bible Students Association.
Q. That is part
of the same order?
A. Yes.
Q. Do they get
any money?
A. They get all
from the Watch Tower. The Watch Tower is the parent organization.
Q. Could they
get any money?
A. There are a
hundred thousand people, sometimes, for instance. If the Bible Students in a
certain place feel that they want to do some work and have not sufficient money
to carry it on themselves, the Society will back them up and furnish part of
the money.
Q. Now is there
any other Society?
A. That’s three.
Q. We have got
the Watch Tower, the Students and the Bible?
A. And the
Peoples Pulpit, one in Pennsylvania, one in Great Britain, one in New York. The
reason for these three – there are certain limitations. By the state law the
Watch Tower cannot operate in New York State, the same in New Jersey. We need,
therefore, to have these others as holding Companies to carry on the work.
Q. Well, isn’t
there another called the London and Brooklyn Tabernacles?
A. Brooklyn
Tabernacle.
Q. Is that an
Association?
A. No.
Q. Or just a
building?
A. Just a
building.
Q. Now the jury
rendered a verdict against you in the Brooklyn Eagle suit, didn’t they?
A. Yes.
Q. And you
objected and commented on that in the Watch Tower, on the verdict?
A. Yes.
Q. In the
February number of the Watch Tower?
A. You had
better read it in the Watch Tower.
Q. I have not
got it here, have you got it?
A. No.
Q. Will you care
to put one in and produce it here?
A. Yes, I am not
ashamed of anything that is done.
Q. But I will
read this. Of course we will take it subject to correction. It will be
corrected in evidence if it does not agree with what is in the Watch Tower.
A. What paper
are you reading from?
Q. The Brooklyn
Eagle.
Q. I am going to
ask some questions, subject to correction. I will put in a copy. I think it is
allright.
(Mr Staunton here reads article
from the February number of the Watch Tower.)
Q. I understand
from you that all you sued for was because they said you were mixed up in the
sale of Miracle Wheat?
A. That’s what
the cartoon was.
Q. What was the
cartoon, what did it look like?
A. It was a
caricature representing me as selling Miracle Wheat.
(To be
continued)
But the next issue (Volume 7
number 7) has no more of the transcript. It reports on CTR’s death and may have
been the last issue produced.